Forum Activity for @Clay

NSF Approved 30-45 lb Chocolate Melter for under $1500?

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

The proofing box is a great recommendation. I mentioned the tabletop warmers because of the quantity of chocolate involved. These can be used to keep a lot more melted chocolate on hand and I know that some people use them to warm molds as well.

If you have a used restaurant equipment store nearby you can sometimes find these for significantly less than new. Keep in mind that they also make half-size cabinets.

But, and FWIW, the customer service agent at WebRestaurantStore was wrong when s/he said that all of the warmers they sell require water. Here is one that doesn't. Oh, and a 6x18x26in pan (full-size) should hold ~40 liters. That's way more than 30kg given the density of chocolate is greater than water.

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Pantoufle -

I would suggest that you look into the idea of doing your own custom blend of commercial couvertures. If you like the basic taste profile of (say) a 70% but you'd like it a little darker and the 85% is too much, then why not add some 85% (or 90% or 100%) to the 70% to get exactly you want? There's no need to accept just what the chocolate companies make and have to sell.

I know several people who take this approach for both dark and milk chocolate and it gets them exactly what they want, rather than relying on finding an exact match in an existing product. I know some people who even mix brands to get to a flavor profile and price point that they like.

You are not likely to get free samples from online shops. Go direct to company and get a sales rep to call on you. They will have samples. Go to trade shows and visit the booths and get samples.

Three other brands to look into that are not mentioned above are: DeZaan, Agostoni, and Kakao Berlin.

--- edited to fix typos ---

updated by @Clay Gordon: 02/21/15 14:33:38

Small/Medium Sized Grinders

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Dom -

There are only the ones from CocoaTown and Santha in this size range. From what people tell me, even though the Premier is small, it's better built than the larger ones. If all you are looking for is a test grinder, the Premier may be the way to go. When you're ready for production, save up your money for a grinder with a larger batch capacity.

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

My father-in-law recently started using ChocXO and has been really happy with it. They have a US location and Canadian location.

http://www.chocxo.com/view-our-catalog/

Also, our website isn't live yet but we will be reviewing couverture (as well as bars). We will be assigning the couverture reviews to my father-in-law because he's been working with chocolate for 30+ years.

Cheers from another Ecole grad! 

updated by @ChocolateCodex: 02/21/15 12:52:43

Putting a Price on My Business

Posted in: Opinion

On a side note, I may be interested in your business, or at least your equipment of you can't find a buyer.

Chocolate Company/ equipment sold together

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

I'm interested in the equipment. Would be able to buy it all in one lot.

What enrober do you like and why?

Posted in: Opinion

I tried this before, but all I got was offers to sell me equipment. It must have been how I worded it.

I would like to know what, in your oppinion, is a good continous temper enrobing line for a small chocolate shop. What about the machine do you like. What don't you like.

I'm hoping to buy a machine in the fall so I'm doing a little research now.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Paul

updated by @Paul2: 04/09/15 05:04:03

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Hi!  If you took your class from Kerry Beal, does that mean you are in Canada? Your profile says U.S., but thought I'd check.  We have a few sites in Toronto where you can order from the U.S., also with low shipping cost tot he states, namely VanillaFoodCompany.ca who sells Valrhona, Ghiradelli, CacaoBarry, Callebaut, etc. And I believe you can also order from McCalls (www.macalls.ca) and view your prices in U.S. or Canadian $$s. McCalls sells all types of couverture chocolate, including Lindt (but watch for artificial flavours in Lindt couv.). In Montreal is www.chocolat-chocolat.com - I think you can order tools and packages from the U.S., but I'm not sure about their couvs (they sell Belcolade, Brazilian couv. Boa Sentenca (I have not tasted this) and CacaoBarry, and others).

I personally like Camino's organic and Fair Trade couverture (www.tasteofcamino.com) - their 45% milk chocolate is very nice and easy to work with and their 56% is a great semi-sweet (one of the only organic semi-sweet's you can find). I don't love their 70% for enrobing or bark because of flavour, but it is great in cakes. Cacao Barry also has an organic milk couverture that is very nice, high cocoa butter, 38%.  I really like it for enrobing (throublesome for truffles).  Their 71% FT/Organic couv is also nice, but disctinct flavour. It pairs very nicely with salt. There is no soy lecithin in this product, good for people concerned with that.

I hope this helps!

Small/Medium Sized Grinders

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I'm starting up a little small batch chocolate company and the grinder I've been using for test batches (Premier Wonder Grinder) has just died. It's a little 1.5kg capacity thing, and I can probably get it replaced as it's less than 6 months old, but in the mean time I was wondering if it's worth upgrading to something a little bigger.

Does anyone have any recommendations for grinders in the 5 - 10kg range that are reasonably affordable? I realise that these things are inherently quite unreliable and difficult to get parts for, so that may be a long shot. 

updated by @Dom Ramsey: 04/11/25 09:27:36

NSF Approved 30-45 lb Chocolate Melter for under $1500?

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Yep, that's the guy. And in fact the one you linked to actually looks pretty good. It's NSF certified, so no inspection problems ever. It has separate proof & heat functions, and the heat mode goes up to 185, which is more than you would even need. It's on wheels so it can be moved around. And it looks like it would hold at least 6-8 large hotel pans full of chocolate, so you're good there. In fact by the time you come even close to needing to melt that much chocolate, you'll probably be ready for that Savage anyway!  

And of course as an added bonus it IS a proofer, so there's no reason not to whip up a batch of chocolate croissants every now and again…

NSF Approved 30-45 lb Chocolate Melter for under $1500?

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Thank you for this idea of the proof box Michael! This seems like the ultimate situation both in terms of bang for your buck and ability to accomodate growth in production size (business is off to a great start so far, so this will come in handy!)  I'm a total novice in the food production business, though, so just want to make sure you're referring to an item like this one right? -- http://www.webstaurantstore.com/win-holt-nhpl-1836-heater-proofer-mobile-cabinet-clear-door-120v/962NHPL1836.html

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Talk to the good folks at Rizek SA.  They are hq'd in SD.

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Yes, I have visited many plantations in many countries and know about the reliability of isolated small production centers. The advantage of being in Santo Domingo is that I can drive up to the CONACADO center. For that particular batch, the beans were from the Monte Plata region and had been fermented 8 days in November. However, I was not impressed by the CONACADO "processing center". Very untidy, broken bags laying around, weak traceability etc. 

I know the DR has wonderful beans but have not found them yet. "Amano" does an amazing chocolate bar with beans from a region they call "Dos Rios". But there are many "two rivers" regions here. Do you know where I could buy "great" beans" in the DR? The rainy season is getting to a close and production is going to increase soon. Thks for yoru help

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Having built most of the infrastructure in the DR, i have some familiarity with the hispaniola beans from there 8-)  I'd encourage you to verify that the beans that are being provided to you as hispaniola are indeed fermented under the protocols you'd want, and dried appropriately.  You'd be amazed at how often beans are represented as something other than what they are.

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thks Sebastian. Yes the hispaniola beans are well fermented and dry. Remaining "natural" is crucial to me, I cannot have traces of ammonium or Polyglycerol in my recipe. Even Soy may put-off some. And I want to be as "local product" as possible.

However, I'll try adding 0.5% to my next batch.

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

First off, you may want to look at the fat of your beans.  Hispaniola's are often lower fat due to the way they've been fermented (or not).  Typically you'd want a fermented bean, and the more fermenated it is, the higher fat it will be - and the better your viscosity will be.  Also pay attention to it's moisture content; if the beans are fully dried, you'll have viscosity issues.

Limit your lecithin usage to 0.5% or less.  More is not better.  Alternatives to  soy lec are sunflower lecithin, but it's not as effective.  PGPR drastically reduces viscosity, but is much different than lecithin (read up on the differences between yield value and plastic viscosity if you'r einteretsed). Also not very natural if that's important. Ammonium phosphatide works well, again not particularly natural.

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thank you all. Very interesting info. After a few sucessful 20 Kg batches of "Hispaniola" and "Grenada" Trinatarios I'm running in some viscosity issues (too thick). First the hunidity level here in the Dominican Rep. is very high and I had decided to limit the added cocoa butter to 3-4%. Reading these posts, I would like to try adding emulsifier. Where can I buy organic soya lethicin ? What are the alternatives to soy lethicin?

Thanks

Who Makes The Best Chocolate in the World?

Posted in: Opinion

We have a saying at my house..."ideology is a flavour". 

Who Makes The Best Chocolate in the World?

Posted in: Opinion

It's intersting how often what people believe doesn't match with what's actual.  One year my (then) middle school daughter did a social experiement for the science fair.  She took one brand of chocolate, re-melted it, remoulded it into 'blank' molds, then broke it up.  She then labelled it as 6 different brands of chocolate (remember it's all the exact same chocolate, just labelled differently) - and gave it to people and asked them to rate it from 1(hate it) to 10(love it).  She then asked people to rate which brands were their favorite and least favorite.

Those people who indicated a preference of chocolate type "A", when they tasted the chocolate that was labelled "A" - rated it very highly.  If they indicated they hated chocolate brand "B" - when the tasted that chocolate labelled "B" - they gave it a very low rating.

 Exact. Same. Chocolate.  Wildly large range of liking scores that directly correlated to their brand preference reporting.

Fascinating insight into the behavioral aspects driven by beliefs.

Rapadura sugar? Unrefined, evaporated cane juice?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Every professional I asked to taste my chocolate told me they tasted raisins and dates. I tried different beans, roasts and conche times and I could never, ever get it out.

Then one day I was making a simple syrup for some cocktails and when I tasted it I could taste that raisin and date. Hopefully my misfortune here gives you a tool to help you choose the sugars you want to try making chocolate with 

Like Sebastian I want to highlight the chocolate, so I bought every sugar I could get and tasted them to find the one with the least added taste. Wholesome Sweeteners organic sugar was the best compromise until I found out about Native sugar in one of Taza's transparency reports. It's organic, available white, and has very good pricing for bulk orders.

Wholesalers should have spec sheets that indicate moisture and ICUMSA colour. Useful to make sure you're clear on what you're ordering.

If you find a darker sugar and chocolate combination you enjoy, please do post about it.

Who Makes The Best Chocolate in the World?

Posted in: Opinion

Mast Brothers makes the best Chocolate in the world.  (but still has bars available for purchase while using tiny volume cocoatown granite grinders.  If it's so good why isn't he sold out??)

Fortunato No. 4 is the rarest chocolate in the world (but is available wholesale through Chef Rubber, and wholesalers like Qzina specialty foods.)

Amadei makes a very expensive "Porcelana" chocolate bar (that is practically as black as an oreo cookie.  Hmmm.... a blend???)

Xocai makes "cold processed" anti-oxidant rich chocolate (that tastes like chocolate)

Countless Organic merchants promote "raw" cocoa powder (that magically has a rich chocolatey taste)

10's of thousands of chocolatiers who "make chocolate"  (grrrrrrr.... this is the worst one and really pisses me off!)

....and the list of misinformed marketing crap goes on...

 

Clay, can you guess how many people think Lindt 70% Excellence is "good" chocolate?  It would BLOW YOUR MIND!!!  In the past 6 years I've hosted over FIVE HUNDRED chocolate and wine tastings for well over 10,000 people who for the most part, thought Lindt was good quality.  I would rather lick a dive bar parking lot than eat the burnt crap that Lindt calls "70% Excellence".  However, they spend millions of dollars per year here in Canada buying premium shelf space in large grocery stores and department stores to flog the public with their brand.  Not to mention the millions of dollars they spend on television advertisements that show the Lindt "masters" in their impeccable chef whites, stirring their vats of chocolate!

What a farce! 

When tasted side by side with a good quality chocolate, almost 50% actually spit out the Lindt.

 

I'm not worried about some bearded hippie with a handful of dinky stone grinders and a chocolate "God" complex.  If anything, he's doing our industry a favour!  I'm sure even his worst chocolate is still better than Lindt!  I'm worried about companies like Lindt.  To most people, chocolate is still a candy - a novel, convenience item to be grabbed on the way to the cash register at the drug store, or grocery store.  As long as large companies are able to buy this premium shelf space, THEY will dictate the chocolate buying habits and taste preferences of the masses, not the bearded hippie with the big mouth.

 

I think the world needs 1,000 more bearded hippies to counter balance companies like Lindt and the chocolatiers who go around telling people they make chocolate when they don't.

updated by @Brad Churchill: 02/19/15 22:24:33

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks for the response, makes sence. Looking forward to learning more about the process for sure!

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Hi Ruth - Thanks for replying to my post.  What an honor!  I actually just bought your Candymaking book and it just arrived a couple days ago!  It was recommended to me by my instructor, Kerry Beal, at Ecole Chocolat.  I wrote about a difficult time I had with making cherry cordials that leaked.  Kerry said your book could possibly help with that issue.  I'm looking forward to reading it!

Regarding viscosity, that is an interesting point I had not considered.  For now I am mainly looking for couvertures to be used for solid molded chocolates/bars, and am not yet thinking about ganaches, etc.  So for that purpose, I believe I would need high viscosity chocolate?  I'm not really sure how to predetermine viscosity before purchasing and tempering the chocolate.  Do you have any recommendations?  That kind of brings me to my next question: Is there any website or resource that reviews/rates chocolate couvertures?  I've searched around, but the only thing I've seen has been C-spot, which I believe is more about reviewing chocolate bars?

 

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Sonia - eBay is a great suggestion.  I had not thought of them for small quantities of couverture.  Thanks!

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Thanks for the suggestion, Michael.  I purchased couverture from Chocosphere once and was very happy with them.  One thought I had was to possibly just start emailing places like Chocosphere and asking if they ever sell smaller sample sizes of the couvertures they offer.

First bean2bar batch

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thank you @sebastian that is helpf

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Afraid there's no short and easy answer to that ash - fermentation science is a huge area, with a relatively small pool of experts.  There's a hundred different variations on a theme, and i'm not sure i could cover them all in a short web post.  Combine the many potential fermentation variables with the fact that everyone around the world does it differently (even within the same origin, there can be an amazing lack of standardization) - and it becomes rather impossible to generalize a fix.  Really the best to do is to work on a specific location with a specific person/approach and work through the specifics of a fermentation protocol for that particular problem.  

NSF Approved 30-45 lb Chocolate Melter for under $1500?

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

I think Clay's idea will probably give you the most bang for the buck. And that's especially true for smaller amounts of chocolate. But if you are concerned about the issue of water, you might also want to think about a used proofing box. For $1500 (your upper limit) you can actually get a new one, but if you're willing to look around a bit I'm sure you can find a used one for half that price without a lot of effort. Just go to a local restaurant supply outlet and ask - they'll hook you up.

Just make sure you get one with separate temperature and humidity controls and then don't use any water. In a full-sized proof box you could load in a bunch of hotel pans full of chocolate at night and by the morning they should all be melted. So not only would this work for you now, but your needs would have to grow fairly substantially before you outgrew the box. And of course no inspector is ever going to give you grief over a proofing box since they're standard equipment in so many kitchens.

 

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

 Hi there, I had a question for you Sabastian along the lines of something you were saying earlier. If your chocolate does smell like vinegar and as you said above it was acidified during fermentaition what tips would you tell the farmers to improve there process to ferment without acidifying? A lot of diffrent factors im sure but is there a basic mistake that gets made that imparts the taste and smell of vingar into your chocolate that could be easily corrected? 

NSF Approved 30-45 lb Chocolate Melter for under $1500?

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Thanks for helping me with the search Clay! I would be hopelessly lost without you!

I thought I hit the gold mine today when I found this warmer with a built-in thermometer (though I would still probably need several of them with 4" deep pans to melt the 30 lbs of chocolate that would be going into the Revolation 3Z)
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/12-x-20-electric-food-warmer-with-thermostat-120v-1200w/324TAH1HFSS.html

But then I spoke with someone from webstaurantstore and he said that ALL the food warmers they sell require water...

Any thoughts on this or where I might look for one that does not require water as you recommended?

Thank you!

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

While the taste is extremely important, don't forget viscosity, and what flavors you are planning to use with it. I think most chocolatiers use several different chocolates for different purposes. Also, some chocolates are easier to source than others, depending on where you live.

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Hello another brand you might consider is Belcolade,  a Belgian couverture very nice. As far as buying small batches to sample, you might want to try Ebay.  

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

You might want to think about these guys; for what you're attempting it seems like as convenient a way to begin as any:  https://www.chocosphere.com

Choosing a Couverture

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Hi All,

I am considering starting a chocolate business and am in the process of trying to decide on the couvertures I would like to use for my product lines.  I'm wondering if others can share their input on how they went about deciding on the couverture you would eventually use in your business?

So far I have tasted around 40 different couvertures and I don't feel like I am anywhere close to finding a perfect dark, milk, or white chocolate that I'd like to use for my recipes.  The brands of couvertures I have tasted so far have been Felchlin, Valrhona, El Rey, Callebaut, Guittard, and E. Guittard.  I have tasted a few from each brand, but not every variety that each of those brands sells.  Some of those have been very good, but I am still searching.  I'd really like to find a way to get a very large sampling of different couvertures so that I feel like I've made an informed decision and that my products are the best they can be.

So far I have been limited to what I can find locally in small quantities.  I'm trying to avoid buying several pounds of a couverture that I just want to taste.  Can other chocolatiers offer suggestions on how you went about buying small samples of couverture to taste so that you could make a decision for your product line? 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer!

updated by @Pantoufle: 04/09/15 13:31:51

Is Ecole Chocolate online program for me?

Posted in: Chocolate Education

Or-m,

I recently took Ecole Chocolat's Professional Chocolatier program, and I echo what Andrea already offered.  I don't have the professional culinary background that you have, yet there is one other thing that I found very helpful that you might like, too:  you would be taking this course with other students from many different locales.  Worldwide, in fact.  While I live in Texas, my "cohort" group consisted of folks as far away as Germany, England, Kuwait, Ecuador, and southeast Asia.  Obviously, there were folks from all across the USA as well as Canada, too. Each of us was invited to submit information/results of our various exercises as we progressed through the curriculum.  The exercises are monitored and graded by professional chocolatiers who are on staff at Ecole Chocolat (and they are quite good in that capacity, too).  While each individual assignment is submitted in private for official grading, we were encouraged to share our results and questions within an open forum. This was particularly helpful to me as we could converse online and share our successes as well as our troubles and challenges.  I personally fell behind on a few things (temperature control in south Texas is a bit of challenge during much of the year!), but the EC staff are graciously allowing me to catch up this spring.  Yes, the actual work and assignments are done all on your own, but you are potentially building a network of "cohorts" who you might someday want to contact and bounce ideas back and forth with.  To me, it's worth it.

Cotton 

Sweet Innovations

Davis Chocolate deviates from the norm with sweet innovations

updated by @Davis Chocolate: 04/09/15 04:11:39

First bean2bar batch

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Don't pay any attention to the smell phases.   They're utterly worthless, as all beans are different (they may apply to certain beans in certain circumstances).  Pay attention to your roast times/temps so you get a safe roast (roasting is your micro kill step), and do multiple roasts on the same batch of bean so you can better ascertain what's "right" for you.

First bean2bar batch

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I just finished my first bean to bar batch, and I'm afraid I under-roasted. What would be the clues that point me in that direction? I roasted to a nice brownie smell, but after winnowing and starting the refining process I found that they smelled and tasted incredibly bitter/astringent. I read (too late) that some recommend roasting beyond the first phase of brownie smell through a "vinegary" phase, and on to a second "brownie" smell. I conched in the premier grinder for 24 hrs and some of the astringent flavors dissipated but not very much. These are the"mixed bag" of test beans from chocolate alchemy - a cheap option for my first batch but unfortunately cannot compare tasting notes to John's suggestions that are offered with his other beans. In the end, it is sort of good, but very sour/bitter and tastes a bit like traditional Baker's baking chocolate. 70% cane sugar. Even if it's not exactly good as eating chocolate I'll break up this first batch and save some to compare to future batches.

updated by @eg: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Chocolate Company/ equipment sold together

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Are you only selling all of the equipment together, or are you willing to separate?

Bug reports

Posted in: FORUM FAQs

Hi Clay,

Yes, I'm referring to the sorting of the discussions themselves, and what info is shown about the discussions, on the group pages. You previously changed the sorting of the comments in a discussion to be much more readable.

Thanks,
Ben

adding sugar and lecithin to chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I'd imagine you're not doing anything wrong at all, and what you're seeing is simply the nature of the beans given their origin and the way they were fermented.  Most of Vietnamese farmers don't know how to ferment their beans - and while there are a number of concerted efforts to improve the quality, it's a slow process.  Vietnamese beans can be very good - they'll be close to west african beans in character.  It's impossible to create sourness during roasting/grinding - so it's unusual that you'd detect sour increasing over time.  

Remember that fermentation is a very, very complex science - thousands of components are formed.  Sourness is from the acids - and there are dozens of acids that are formed, and not all of them are volatile (ie not all of them disappear during roasting).  if the beans don't smell / taste of vinegar, then my bet is that you've got beans that are low in volatile acidity, but high in organic acidity (and those don't evaporte no matter what you do) simply due to the way they were fermented.  Addition of some baking soda during conching might help mitigate that.

The beautiful thing about chocolate is there's so many variables to play with.  If you've still got some beans left, roast them at 20 degrees higher temp for 20% longer time and see what you get.  One of the other challenges is that we may not be speaking the same sensory 'language' (ie you may say bitter but mean something completely different than what i mean).  It's very, very hard to trouble shoot sensory over the internet w/o first having a shared and agreed upon lexicon of what the words actually mean.

Water Activity meters, testing, and benchmark recipes

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I purchased a Decagon PawKit used for $500. It has been invaluable as I develop my formulas. If you have a State University nearby, they can test your ganaches for you.